The costs associated with becoming a licensed architect are out of control. If you have gone through the process yourself in the last 10 years you know exactly what I mean – it seems like there is a never-ending line of people with their hands out, telling you that you have to pay for every single step along the way – and we all know that there are a lot of steps along the way to becoming a licensed architect.
Over the past 40 years, the requirements for architectural licensure have increased tremendously in terms of time and cost to the candidate. In 2012, the Texas Society of Architects agreed to put together a task force to examine the Architectural Licensing Exam (ARE) and the Intern Development Program (IDP) process and propose changes for a simpler, more efficient system. The results from this task force have been compiled and were presented at this years 2013 AIA “large states” meeting where the findings and recommendations were very well received. Last week The Path to Architectural Licensure was presented to the Executive Board at the Texas Society of Architects who unanimously endorsed the task force findings.
This is an extremely important issue for our field – it forces us to look at how we are nurturing and building the careers of the young people who aspire to become architects, and what their path to success might include.
I have read the report myself several times over and the data presented in it is both remarkable and alarming. The report not only identifies items in the system that might be broken, it also presents recommendations on how to fix this process. I have culled out and presented some of the graphics which highlight the main issues – mainly the time and costs associated with becoming a licensed architect.
This first graphic shows how the testing requirements have changed over the last 40 years [click to enlarge]:
This next graphic takes a look at the out-of-pocket expenses associated with the process of maintaining and recording the requirements of the Intern Development Program as well as the number of tests and costs of those test required to become licensed to practice architecture [click to enlarge]:
Finally, as if to add insult to financial injury, this last graphic looks at the costs associated with becoming licensed as compared to Engineers and Lawyers [click to enlarge]:
The participating states (Texas, California, New York, Pennsylvania, Florida, New Jersey, and Michigan) were to take the paper to their own leadership groups and see if those groups would like to endorse the recommendations – with that process currently underway. Ultimately, the paper with any endorsements will be forwarded to NCARB and a request for their response. Your participation is encouraged and I would really appreciate your feedback on the recommendations posited by the force – or even if you simply want to vent about the current system. To read the entire report (which I highly recommend anyone in the field of architecture take the time to do so) just follow this link to The Path to Architectural Licensure report.
Cheers – and thank you for your time and opinions.
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Thanks for sharing! This has been a topic I’ve been tackling in DC as well. I think it would be helpful to compare these changes with average income for the profession. When you add these costs, with the costs of other organizations and certifications we are encouraged to participate in and obtain USGBC/LEED, AIA, etc., the costs of student loans, and general costs of living, and then compare them to the income of a young architect it is ridiculous! Thank you for addressing this topic and I would love to assist you as you explore it further.
I have been a licensed architect for 22 years. I wholeheartedly agree with the report. Why should it be harder, more time consuming and more expensive to become a licensed architect than an engineer or an attorney? It shouldn’t. Architects need to lose this elitist, “if you can’t handle it, you don’t deserve to be one of us God-like creatures” attitude. Licensing is a way for states to determine your competency in life safety so you don’t kill or injure anyone with your building. It is not (and should not try to be) an endorsement of your superior design skills. I am tired of seeing talented, hardworking folks give up because of all the barriers put in front of them for licensing. One of the most insidious ones is NCARB’s “six month rule.” I know of several folks with MANY years of experience who can’t count it toward licensure because they hadn’t begun IDP before the rule change. I personally feel that having fewer licensed architects is bad for the profession because good designers will go unlicensed and clients will start to recognize (correctly) that they can hire unlicensed designers who are equally qualified to do the work.
I agree that we need to see as many people through licensure as possible.
However, what should happen is that hiring an unlicensed designer should be against the law same as hiring an unlicensed contractor. The consumer plays a role.
Not to mention the cost of college has gone up 1000 fold and that now an ‘5-6 year accredited’ or master’s degree is required where it was once a 4 year bachelors or just ‘experience’.
Add to the burden of time and money the need to learn a weird drawing program with no actual application in the actual world, just for the rarefied exercise of passing the examination. At least until the 90’s you draw by hand, in a way similar to the way you would do in actual practice. I don’t see that particular point addressed in the post…
Adding even more insult to the financial injury of acquiring a license are the costs associated with having a license. Not so much the annual state fee ($125/yr in MA), but national & local associations dues such as AIA and the Boston Society of Architects here in MA are nearly $800/yr. While optional they are almost a necessity to be and stay informed and visible to colleagues and prospective clients. Great post Bob!
“Most firms will cover some or all costs associated with exams and initial license”
None of the half dozen firms in which I have worked with during the last 7 years have. They have ranged in size from 2 – 250 people. I believe the firm paying for your licensing is a pre-2008 standard and is now considered overhead as opposed to an investment. The study guides tend to cost nearly as much as the tests themselves. So save up those $12-18 an hour salaries, those little letters after your name are expensive. Wouldn’t it be nice if the almighty AIA assisted in exam fees/ IDP, somehow. At least saying you are an architect is better than saying ‘architect in training’ or “intern architect” or “intern” or “cad jockey”
Most firms will cover some or all costs associated with exams and initial license. Some will cover or help with study materials and post licensure expenses such as NCARB or AIA membership. Some smaller or specialized firms can’t or don’t help with this, and if you want to go it alone, you have to deal with it. To put it into perspective, if you are licensed and stamping drawings, you are often managing the course of work for hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars of work. If you can’t manage your own situation to either gain training at a solid firm which mentors you and is paying for your exams, or manage your own finances to come up with $1800 over a 5 year period, you probably have no business being an architect until you learn those skills. If you don’t have the ability to come up with $1800 over a 5-10 year period, what makes you feel so entitled that you think you have the ability or right to hold lives in your hands as you practice?
“Most firms will cover some or all costs associated with exams and initial license”
None of the half dozen firms in which I have worked with during the last 7 years have. They have ranged in size from 2 – 250 people. I believe the firm paying for your licensing is a pre-2008 standard and is now considered overhead as opposed to an investment. The study guides tend to cost nearly as much as the tests themselves. So save up those $12-18 an hour salaries, because those little letters after your name are expensive (and hopefully worth more than just the Post Prometric Pint from your close friends). At least saying you are an architect is better than saying ‘architect in training’ or “intern architect” or “intern” or “cad jockey”
As a recently licensed architect, I still often reflect back on my university years, where students who spent money on the best materials received the highest grades. The requirements of the course may have dictated nothing more than study models, but… Making a model out of chipboard or foam-core? B- Making a model out of plexi-glass and resin? A+ Cost difference? Hundreds of dollars.
A troubling thought occured to me drinving into work this morning.
This large expense for licensure has other costs as well–to wit,
“Just how many potentially great architects are turned away from practice because of the high financial burden?”
Suppose we could bend time and transplant a 22 year-old FLW to today. Even if we presupposed his having identical access to patrons, he still would not be academically qualified to even enter IDP. history suggests that FLW would have some profane Welsh phrases upon the topic entire.
Very Interesting article.
My name is Brett Bouwer and I am a third year architecture student at the university of colorado denver.
currently in Studio II and have to go to five to finish my undergrad. Being in colorado I have been told I have to go get my masters degree too.
I can tell you I spend well over 10 grand on educational expenses alone.
But where I am really suffering is finding out about NCARB, IDP, etc . No one gives you a straight answer, no one is preparing me for the real word. 99% percent of my fellow classmastes have no clue how a building is even built. Not to mention all the years i have to wait after I take my exams to become an architect.
Hi Brett,
Few things that hopefully make you feel just a bit better about your situation:
1. Everybody feels the same way – you are not alone
2. You don’t have to wait years to take the exam, you can start right after you’ve met your education requirements. You have to wait years to get the experience and that coupled with your exams qualify you as an architect.
3. A great many schools consider the IDP process basically as supplements to your education and as a result, they focus your college curriculum on items that you will not get exposed to once you graduate. It’s not a bad thing that you might graduate from college and not know how a building gets built.
4. College is expensive for everyone – the expenses associated with the licensing part of becoming an architect are minuscule compared to college. However, they are disproportionate to other licensed professionals and luckily, we have people who are trying to resolve that issue.
Hang in there – best of luck.
Bob
” It’s not a bad thing that you might graduate from college and not know how a building gets built.” are you kidding me? How is that not a bad thing..I know this thread is old but please elaborate. That is crazy to me.
It shouldn’t be. Architects don’t go to trade school so that they come out of school with an easily defined trade skill. This is about learning how to learn and process information. The best architecture schools teach you how to solve problems that don’t exist. You can go to a technical school if you want to learn how to draw a wall section.
it should be, the fact that they don’t know how to build something- and seeing how that is their chosen profession- is absolutely ludicrous and explains why so many struggle in this “profession.” oh dear, how awful that we would want to know what “trades people” know.. *sarcasm* snobs.
Appreciate the reply Bob, I agree that architecture school is not trade school and learning how to learn and process information is important. However, Its like coming out of medical school and not knowing the basics of how the human body works. If you catch my analogy.
to keep the analogy going, that’s why both architects AND doctors have an intern process that takes place after they go to school.
When I took the exams in 04 and 05 I was already a designer with my own firm. I looked at it as a marketing expense figuring that having a license would add a level of legitimacy and open my practice up to new markets. It accomplished that somewhat but mostly I stopped having to explain why I wasn’t really an architect.
I feel like that’s why I’m ultimately getting licensed. No one in this firm that’s licensed ever stamps anything because of liability and I won’t really get a raise because overhead is too tight. Then my boss asks me when I’m going to start testing, and it’s kind of like, “What’s the point?”
the short answer is because you are not an architect unless you are licensed – it’s our “finish line.” In my office we have institutionalized the process of becoming licensed because regardless of whether or not you stamp drawings, as owner I can market you differently as a licensed professional over a “designer”. Anybody can (and does) call themselves a designer, it’s a worthless label.
this is not quite true. i called myself an architect even in school and continued to do so in public and with consultants and vendors and contractors in practice. in the context of being an employee…. nobody cares. i don’t know how this gets perpetuated but it’s ridiculous. the reason firms like licensure is their insurance premiums go down… its not even a marketing strategy… and i know plenty of designers that are unlicensed and make way more than staff architects. in fact designers in larger firms are all strategic employees.
this ‘illegal’ thing is what i hear over and over. it’s simply not true. if you are an employee, working for a principle that is providing services you are not committing fraud by calling yourself an architect. the only time you can run afoul of the state is if you as an individual get into an agreement with another party to provide architectural services and you are not licensed. that’s it. to all you architects out there working for a company with licensed principles…. you are all architects and please feel free to call yourself that at work or wherever.
It depends on which state you’re working in. Some states have practice laws, whereas others have title laws. If you’re in a title law state and are using the title of “architect,” they most certainly will haul you in before the board. Try that in Mississippi, for example. I’m a licensed architect in several states, but at the time of the incident, not in Mississippi. I was working as a consultant for a planner on a design charrette, and got interviewed by a local paper, which said I was an architect. I didn’t even tell them that. But in any case, I had to answer to the Board.
it’s just that a lot of young architects get this in their head that they are not an architect without a license. i hear them on the phone with a vendor or in a meeting with a cm or client or whoever and they stumble over it. it’s stupid. everyone knows you work for the company. the company has licensed professionals. they hired your firm. or they are building a building with your firm…. and you are an employee with your firm. nobody cares. not even the state. i’ve worked at/with the biggest. and nobody (especially client reps) care. they hired your firm and all the consultants that came with it. the expeditors that work with the city. the building officials that look at your drawings. they don’t care. they don’t. and i tell all my young professional colleagues… please call yourself an architect. and they understand it. if they aren’t a principle that incorporates the firm…. nobody but the AIA cares. (and ncarb and prometric and other third party leaches)
I just got my renewal notice for NCARB: this is the one that mystifies me the most. They charge a pretty high ($225/year) fee for “maintaining” my record. The annoying part is that when I applied for reciprocity in New Jersey (I’m originally licensed in PA), I had to pay them an additional fee to forward my record to NJ. How much? Another $400!!!
But, NJ required it. So I paid it. Then I got an application in the mail from NJ, which requested all the same information that’s in my NCARB record, like education, previous registrations, work history, etc. I called NJ and asked whether I really needed to fill all that in, since they already had my NCARB record. They said yes, because NCARB only sends an “abbreviated” version of the record, which doesn’t include any of that information. So what do they do, exactly????? Why do I pay them more each year than I pay the state of PA and NJ combined? What service are they providing? I really don’t understand it. PA has all of my information on record already; why not just have them forward the information to NJ?
Ian, that is how NCARB keeps costs DOWN for interns. One administration of the ARE costs them over $1000 yet they only charge the candidate $210. Where is the difference made up? In the fees they charge Registered Architects and NCARB Certificate holders. IDP and ARE could both actually be a lot more costly if not for supplementing those costs in this way.
Wow, That’s even worse than I had imagined. And brings a very valid question.. WHAT ARE THEY DOING for us? starting to sound like pretty much nothing….
The whole process looks like it is intended to be a form of hazing. Perhaps somewhere along the way the rules changed from trying to ensure quality to trying to limit competition. Or, perhaps, just trying to justify the test(s) – is there a lot of money in testing? Apparently there’s more than a bit. Just my two cents.
– Bob the P.E.
Here here. I agree with everything said. And having been someone who went through IDP relatively recently I think it is a total joke. I started it believing that it was a good thing b/c architects need a diversity of experience. But after having one employer blackmail me into working in his office longer under threat of not having a full years worth of IDP signed and another never bothering to sign my IDP at all with no explanation I now find it pretty much worthless.
I also love the idea of having our education count for something. Getting a degree in Architecture is not for the faint of heart and god knows it is expensive enough without all the BS that follows.
There is a couple costs that you missed. First is the cost of the education. When I attended a university, my credit hours cost was around $60 per credit hour. That same school now charges $960 per credit hour. Graduates today are saddled with student loan debts that surpass a mortgage in some states.
Then there is the on going charges from NCARB. I agree with a previous post that the AIA should buyout NCARB. NCARB changes annual fees to maintain your records and we need them, because NCARB has successfully lobbied many states to require applicants (new and reciprocity) to file for a state license through NCARB.
NCARB used to be somewhat affordable. Now it costs $225/year–just in case I want to be licensed in another state. Outrageous.
Another smart Lady!!
Smart Lady!
The actual costs are much higher!!! Depending on the ARE division the offical NCARB passing rates are as low as 55-60% which means that most of candidates have to repeat one or more sections incurring in extra costs.
I don’t know how the task force could factor in the variables for the pass/ fail rates -I mean, I do but I don’t necessarily think they should. I studied more than almost anyone I knew and I passed all sections on the first try whereas I’ve heard of some people walking in cold and taking all the tests. Their thought was they would see what sort of information was on the test and the possibility that they could pass a few without dedicating any time to studying was a possibility.
really great article. There’s also the enormous expense of study material to factor in there although that’s pretty difficult to average from person to person. Also the incredibly dated software used for the vignettes. I actually had to buy an older computer just to use the practice software. No 64 bit, and no mac.
This same problem with a 64-bit machine had me try to cancel my first exam, which was 3 days away when I finally tried. However, it was three days including a weekend, so they said the 72 hour notice didn’t count and charged me $200 for the test I didn’t take anyway. Hard not to feel like it’s all just a big scam…we certainly don’t get paid any better, and all of a sudden have way more fees and way more liability for the work we do!
Geez louise!
I know my perspective changed once I came through the other end. I don’t really think about it or belabor the expense anymore. I know that when I was talking the Texas Society of Architect President Larry Speck, he mentioned that when the research started coming in, since he has been licensed for quite a while now, it was surprising to see just how laborious and expensive the process has become.
I think your point is a huge issue. The people fighting the injustice of the system are primarily those outside trying to make their way in. There is no incentive for already licensed people to fight for change considering it really just increases competition.
Yes, it was such a painful process that I’ve mentally compartmentalized and wiped that time of my life away. I developed such an aversion that I literally avoid driving near that part of town years after taking the tests in that office park. However, participating locally with get togethers and current candidates to ease their fears and help them cope with the process is a something we all can do. As for the tests themselves, that is massive can of worms.
That is a great point!
I hope blogs like this that get read by huge numbers of people will start to make a difference.
Another elephant in this room is that “we” are paid what society thinks we are worth–and “they” don’t think it’s bery much at all.
Which is not at all helped by the builders, and plan houses, and every other “work around” outfit out there turning out what is commonly thought yo be “architecture” and devaluing our services.
If NCARB & AIA were using all our dosh to get out there and find ways to enforce existing practice law, the bite might not be so bad,
Instead, it’s just financial hazing.
I graduated from Ohio State University in 2011, after a year of having problems I moved to China to farther my career in architecture. One of the most common discussions among expat architects in China is when do we plan on return if ever to practice architecture in our home countries. The Europeans tend to go with the flow, but Americans I have noticed more commonly to answer why go back to america to practice.
I am a year and half out of school I am already a project manager involved in designing and bidding large scale projects. A position almost impossible in the states due to a society fixated on labels and certifications.
Of course I plan to move back some day for my masters, but question what will I do after is something I am always thinking about. I love what I do, and I know living in the states will make life easier with friends and family. Career wise though it just seems like a headache.
Cheers from Beijing.
I moved to Asia upon graduation from undergrad. I spent a year living in Bangkok and then two living in Shanghai practicing architecture. After three years I went to grad school. Then lived in Berlin practicing for two years before moving to Portland OR to settle down. I was hired as an intern and given the same pay and responsibility as someone straight out of school. Basically most firms here didn’t value out of country experience since i didn’t have LEED or Revit. Never mind that I worked on competitions and let design teams and was given responsibilities that I wouldn’t get for decades working in the US. Our system is severely broken.
Howdy Beijing!
I have received a few emails from american architects in Beijing and most share your thoughts. Interesting problem to consider. Maybe you would come back and be as much a superstar here as you are there …
Reading your comments does not make me feel bad for not starting my ARE exam.
I am an intern level and was laid off couple of months ago and since then I was not able to find another job which led me thinking maybe it’s good time to finish my ARE exams since I have lots of time.I realized ARE exams are very expensive, and I already spent 60k for my tuition + high costs of model materials, laptop, books printer , etc.. I don’t expect that I will pay for the exams without paying for educational materials and perhaps extra additional seminar or two so that doubles my expenses.
With this 1500 $ I could take a cheap java script course and find an entry level job that pays 62k with benefits.
My previous job wasn’t paying much, 10$/hr ,and from what I understand architect salaries doesn’t pay much and most offices needs only one or two architects to stamp their drawings so realistically how many licensed architects does the world really needs ?!
.
“ARE exam”? Architectural Registration Exam exam?
Do you also work in a building information model model? Use an automatic teller machine machine? Does your car have a vehicle identification number number?
not sure that this comment adds anything to the mix. Was your purpose to make someone feel bad or was there something of value that I’m missing? Hopefully these aren’t the sort of battles you take on a regular basis.
Not joking–I just had someone at my firm give their two weeks’ today who is leaving architecture to take a programming job after picking up a CS associate’s online. And I can’t say I blame him.
I will never put myself in a position to judge someone else for their professional aspirations (or lack thereof in some instances). For me, I think George Burns put it nicely:
“I’d rather be a failure at something I love than a success at something I hate.”
Happily, I’ve never had to worry about paying my bills so there is a certain perspective I don’t have.
“Happily, I’ve never had to worry about paying my bills”
Well, then again you’ve only been a partner for a short time.
I married someone who was smarter than me …
I just read this comment to my supervisor. Her reply was, “The key to an architect’s survival is to marry well.”
Bob,
Excellent analysis. However, I think that these costs are minuscule compared to rising liability insurance costs, rising health care benefit costs (associated with running a firm), computer hardware costs, and rising software subscription costs. I think that those costs are much more difficult obstacles to overcome than the costs of licensure.
valid problem, just not the problem that this task force was charged with addressing. This really had more to do with nurturing and building the careers of the young people who aspire to become architects –
it’s too late for you.
That is an interesting bit of rhetoric, considering the entire professional career path is as an anti-nurturing as possible.
Not in my office … We pay for tests (pass or fail), we pay to attend state and National conventions, we give work time to volunteer to charitable cause (which includes the AIA) … Not every contributes to the problem
What is the correlation between what an Architect makes (monetarily) 3 years after he/she is registered versus an Engineer or Lawyer. Has anyone run those figures?
Don’t know in today’s terms, but in 1979 when I passed the exam and was registered, an Engineer made twice as much as an Architect, directly out of school with a 4 year degree. Also, in 1979, I took the 2 day (8 hours each day), 4 part, multiple choice and then had to take the 1 day, 12 hour, design problem I think that summer (or the next) to get my NCARB. At that time Texas, did not have the funds to implement the design problem.
I’ve always wondered why yearly renewal fees are so expensive for IDP and state licensing boards. You would think that it would take less resources to simply maintain records than the yearly fees these groups require you to pay. What are they really doing with my record each year after saving the original file in a database somewhere?
Also, it would be interesting to see a similar study of the architecture licensing process comparing cost and time differences between the US and other countries.
I’ve wondered why the maintenance costs were so high as well – makes me think the system in place to maintain or modify is either poorly organized or that there is a certain amount of on-going operating expenses that these maintenance costs need to offset. Who knows, probably nothing so clandestine as I imagine.
And for contrast, I was told that, in Sweden, when one passes one’s Universoty exams, those are treated as one’s ARE, and you can be licensed at graduation.
I’ve never beed to Sweden, nor met any Swedish architects, so that could all be hearsay.
Given the vast quantity of things we have to/want to/ought to teach our interns now, I’m not sure I’d be over-keen on licensing right out of college.
I believe this is also the case in Denmark – graduate from architecture school = being an architect. We should consider rolling in the AREs to coursework. The final exam for a structures class should be the structures ARE, etc.
Something is messed up in the chronology. I took the full ARE in 1984, and it was a 4-day ordeal then. The chart above indicates that didn’t happen until 1994, if I’m reading it correctly.
Same here…took it in 1990 as a 4 part test.
Yes, I took it in ’86 and it had all the parts listed in the ’94 chart.
I also took the ARE in 1988 and it sounded like the ’94 version you indicated. I especially liked the fact that you took the exams in the spring and didn’t get result’s until the fall.
I believe that there was a sense of accomplishment when you completed the week-long ordeal, that get’s lost in the current process.
My last question is that in this old process of qualifying for the exam and then taking the exam, was it too lax and as a result, there were unqualified Architect’s passing through the cracks? It seems to me that the only reason to change the process was to make it more affordable (machine grading versus people grading) but instead, it’s made it less affordable. I feel for the future Architects.
I don’t think you are alone in your sympathy for future architects – thankfully there are some people in leadership positions trying to do something about it
I don’t know if the 1994 chart was created to articulate the change to a 4 day exam, there might have been other reasons to use ’94 as the date. That having been said, there is another timeline issue that I passed along to the folks who curated the dated for the charts. I am glad you chimed in – really want to vet the data as best as is possible.
Thanks Steve
Bob: Just some of total days are messed up. The sections and hours are correct. I took it in ’77 and it was exact same as the ’74 exam you list above except it was TWO days (8 hours/per day) and the ’80 exam was FOUR days as Steve noted above. I know because by then I had employees and always paid them for exam days so they could use their vacation time for relaxing. We gave them the whole week off but they all came back in Friday to tell war stories.
You should read through the suggested solutions in the report – I think they have successfully identified some of the issues you’ve brought up. I have wondered many time why the AIA doesn’t own NCARB. We are the only professionally member organization (that I know of) that doesn’t oversee or own their own licensing process. I find that ridiculous.
agreed – I’d like to add that its completely rediculus that NCARB requires “volunteering” as a part of idp
Volunteering aka unpaid internship
I’d love to see this compared to the exams and costs of becoming a licensed Interior Designer, as well. I’m just baffled by how expensive it is, and my biggest obstacle will be cost. Not only is the exam process $1,000+ for 3 tests, the study materials are quite cost prohibitive as well.
add in landscape architects to this question. What are their costs to become licensed?
Sadly, the only thing more expensive than the study materials is not using them.
all we need to make that happen is another task force!
When preparing for the ARE 3.1, I would have loved a few cut backs on the fees and number of exams. As rough as it was, there is something to be said for the 5+ year degree, 3+ year internship, and the multi-year test prep for taking each exam. Now that victory has been reached, I have concerns that watering down the exam for new generations may decrease the level of pride that goes along with being a “licensed Architect”.
Why should we be forced through hell in order to have pride? I am an unlicensed designer of buildings and I am damn proud of the work I have done as well as the incredible architecture created by people throughout the world. In fact, I would say most of the world is far ahead of the US in terms of quality of architecture and the built environment, and it just so happens that it is almost universally easier to become an architect in other countries. Hazing is not a requirement to feel pride and it is horrible that people believe it is.
I do have to agree with this as well. The points brought up in the study have some merit, but I’m finding that the areas of the IDP that I still haven’t fulfilled are the areas of the profession where I just don’t have knowledge. I get asked questions and don’t have a clue how to answer them, so I think that some of the structure that’s currently in place should remain. With that said, since I’ve started in the profession 7 years ago, IDP has changed 3 times and they’re working on the third version of the ARE. That just needs to stop – I’m having to adapt to multiple variations DURING the process. I like the study’s suggestion to have 10 years without changes!
I knew they were high, but putting in the comparables, it is ridiculous. I’m currently trying to save up enough money to start taking exams. That is my current barrier. And they wonder why, as an industry, we make little profit? Maybe because we’re all paying NCARB (and AIA!).
I like the fact that part of what instigated this process was that the leadership at the state level branch of the AIA (Texas Society of Architects) recognized the need to take better care of our associates. You can consider that – regardless of where you live – they were thinking about you.
Good luck on your exams.
Also, one of the unstated things about being a lawyer is that merely passing the bar is not enough (even if it pays circa twice what being a newly-frocked architect). Junior lawyers are generally expected to put in 60-70 hour weeks for 5-6 years at a firm to be considered for any of the big-paying positions.
so are architects BTW. I see interns as well as recently licensed professionals routinely putting in 60-90 hour weeks as deadlines approach or firms are going after new projects.
TSA has always seemed to be more focused on the actual needs of the profession, rather than just being another Beltway lobbying group.
Don’t forget that CA has an additional exam ($150, I believe) and then the costs of joining AIA (if you so choose) for the city, state and national chapters and paying those dues every year… Also in CA, our license expires every 2 years and we must pay an additional fee at that time as well. It’s definitely not cheap! I feel really fortunate that my firm has paid all of my fees since I got my license.
it seems now that it is an employment benefit when firms help with the expense of taking the exams. I’ve known of a few larger firms that will buy the study material and make it available to their interns, some even pay for the exam when you pass it … but this seems to be the exception and not the rule.
Rather a convoluted discussion on LinkedIn, Architecture forum on that very topic.
I’m also curious about the costs associated with the education process that are beyond those associated with more traditional majors. I’m thinking of things like model-making materials, pens, pencils, sketchbooks, laptop loaded up with expensive software (my program requires this), ect. These generally aren’t big ticket items but they add up for poor college students
That would be a hard one to quantify since the materials would vary greatly from college to college. I think it would be interesting but how to capture and present this information would be the real challenge
agreed, but when the hurdles for becoming a licensed architect is the topic at hand, it would be worth the effort of at least mentioning that simply studying architecture in college is not for the faint-of-heart when it comes to financial outlay. its certainly more costly than most other degree programs
this is nothing more than a hazing ritual created by the old men in the suits.
The exam was cut back to two days from five days in ’74 because there was real concern that by the time everyone reached the fifth day the exam wasn’t about testing architecture knowledge anymore, it was about endurance.
I took it in ’77 when it was still two days and THAT was still rough. And back then if you failed one section you had to take the whole test over again. And to top that off, you didn’t know which section(s) you failed or by how much. No scores where given, it was either a P or an F……and they only gave the test once a year.
There’s was a great thread somewhere on LinkedIn a while back about all this and also the cost of reciprocation as it relates to the AIA and especially the NCARB (talk about ridiculous costs and NCARB!) but I couldn’t find it in a quick search.
Doug
Thanks Doug – I’ll go back through and see if I can find that thread on LInkedIn – although I am curious if it provided thoughtful consideration for the issues. Most of the time it seems LinkedIn posts get taken over by some cyber bully and everything devolves into a giant complaint “woe is me” thread. This would be okay if those people got involved and tried to be part of some solution.
I think my comment just turned into a LInkedIn thread!!
As a licensed Interior Designer that follows your blog, I can attest that the same thing has happened to Interior Designers. And now with NCIDQ, ASID and USGBC raising their annual dues ($45+$450+300+ annual CEU costs), the costs are out of control. This does not include license fees paid annually to the state and in my case 3 states since I live in a tri-state area and have clients in all three. Although I appreciate the need for licensing, particularly because we deal with health and life safety issues, these spiraling costs are shrinking our decidedly middle class incomes. Most interior designers reach an income ceiling within the first 5-10 years of their career and unless you are willing to go out on your own there is really no hope of increasing your income.
Bob – can you please explain what is meant by “certification”? What is the $1500 application fee?
This is NCARB certification – from the NCARB website:
“This fee covers one year of NCARB services to compile your NCARB Record and verify your credentials in pursuit of NCARB certification. Once you are approved for certification, this fee also maintains your Certificate in active status for one year.”
In July of 2010 NCARB conveniently raised their application fee from $675.00 to $1,500.00! This was a time when the profession was burning with at least 1/3 of architects being unemployed, yet this institution found it suitable to raise their application fee by Over 200%!! NCARB had just moved into a state of the art LEED accredited facility in pricey DC. Their employees make are paid far more than architects with commensurate experience!
At that time I moved from Illinois to Iowa (due to unemployment) My total costs for reciprocity were $2,130.00! When I took the exam, some 15 years before it was about $500.00.
The funny thing was, NCARB was more concerned about my internship I completed in the late 80’s. It didn’t matter that I had sealed drawings in Illinois for 12 years. They wanted verification that I had a solid internship. When I told them one architect I had worked for was deceased and another firm was no longer in business, they seemed baffled. They then said I could have some peers fill out a form. What a joke!
I was a bit freaked out for a moment. If I ever get through the rest of my tests and IDP I didn’t want to shell out another $1500! If you’ve already enrolled in IDP ($350 per their current website amounts) as an intern and pay the $75/year annual fee, then they will waive the $1500. You’re still paying, it’s just not that big amount at one time.
Don’t forget the archaic drafting software now used for the exam. Their practice software is not compatible with newer computers without installing an additional piece of 3rd party software to allow it to run. The only other option is to pay NCARB to use a cloud based software which is extremely slow if you are on a slow internet connection.
the software issue is addressed in the report:
“No special software should be required for the exam that is not everyday software used by the great majority of architects in the professional marketplace.”
It will be interesting to see how this is dealt with if the proposal is accepted by NCARB
I would hate to see NCARB finally give in and use existing software. I know it is the elephant in the room,. but it seems like if the path to licensure includes an Autodesk product, we’ve just rolled over an accepted a monopoly. I never had a problem with their software – they just need to update it so it actually works.
a small correction to the time line durations on the exams. the 1974 version was given over two days. The 1980 version was given over three days.
Not to minimize the costs assoicated with taking the exam now versus when I did but some relative information: in 1978 when i took the exam my gross salary was $14,000. I had just started a new job in May where my salary went up from $10,000. The exam was given the first week of December so my effective gross was less than the $14K. I spent over $1,000 for exam fees, ALS seminar (2 days in Houston, I live in Dallas), study material (no internet or electronic, all hard bound books), travel and expense to Austin ( 2 days hotel, meals, gas) to take the exam. So the costs represented at the time were about 7 to 8 percent of my gross income. On take home pay that amounted to over 10 percent.
I am not going to challenge you on the dates – but since the task force assembled the data, I would have hoped that they got the timeline right. I did wince when I read that the 16 hours of testing took place over a single day (ouch!)
I don’t think they took travel, gas, and accommodations into consideration since those items aren’t unilaterally applied to everyone – but they are real enough. That is one positive aspect of the change – the availability of where and when you can take the tests now.
I am going to put a call in to make sure that some correction isn’t needed on the timeline – thanks for pointing that out.
ASID is busily creating a similarly rigged system for interior designers by forcing licensure before state legislations. I’ve been a member on and off since college and have yet to find a use for ASID in my daily practice. Yet they always have their hand out. /end rant
it’s a good rant – I hope ASID doesn’t go down that rabbit hole – getting out once your in seems almost impossible.
I absolutely agree with this comment. I too often feel the answer is “Call your engineer.” With how much they pound into your head that there is no master builder and we are a team, why can’t we use our team? I’ve even asked some of the questions to my structural engineer friends when I didn’t understand material, and they were like “Why are you learning this?”
FWIW- I thought that David T’s class was well worth the time/ money. I agree with your comment about engineers. I don’t know how many times while taking the test that I felt the answer should have been, “Call your engineer”.
Best wishes on your exams and registration.
I remember – hope you enjoyed your Thaddeus class!
In the report – in the “Summary of Needed Changes” – the recommendation is that “focus should be exclusively on health, safety, and welfare as mandated by statutory requirements for licensure.” I would infer from this comment that certain aspects of the test be eliminated and I would think the detail and depth at which we are tested on structure items would be reduced. It’s one thin to be familiar with concepts and strategies, and another altogether to have us calculating loads on individual chord members in trusses.
Good luck on your sine and cosine garbage
I’ll agree that test had very little to do with application. I took the test a few years ago (first-ish year of the current version), maybe a month after taking Thaddeuss’ course, with no other studying and passed it.
Ha- they forgot to add the associated cost of study materials. I’ve spent well over $1500 on ARE prep classss, books and seminars. And to add insult to injury the relative pass rate is between 40-70% for each division which means you’re more than likely to have to take at least 1 or 2 exams 2 or more times. Furthermore, if you take longer than 5 years to pass all the test once you’ve begun you’ve got to take them over again (god forbid you have children in your twentys!)
And finally if you’re trying to become lisenced in California, there’s the 8th supplemental exam.
It’s taken me almost 15 years out of school but I’m almost there. 7 AREs finished and 1 final california supplimental exam to go next week! #almostanarchitect
good luck on #8
Since the report was focusing on items they can control, I’m not surprised that study materials wasn’t listed. By reducing the number of exams, maybe the study materials can become consolidated
Not to mention the hit and miss nature of the materials that are available. I just finished last year (thankfully no supplemental required in Oklahoma), and I was always amazed with how difficult it is to figure out which resources are the most helpful. By the 5th or 6th exam, I finally had some idea of what and how to study. Also frustrating are the mistakes that are found in the NCARB practice solutions along with the lack of direction they provide. I know that these are not 100% correct solutions, but the vague nature of the vignettes feels more than a little misleading. Just learning the software for each vignette is a job in itself.
Congrats on making it through the ARE and best of luck on the CA supplemental!